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 [11:14:50] <jerboaa>  benjaminv, I think anton created some sort of user doc on the old wiki too.
 [11:16:53] <benjaminv>  jerboaa, ok. I will check this and realise a merge of this documentation and the one written by Morgan
 [11:17:17] <jerboaa>  benjaminv, cherry pick things :)
 [11:17:30] <benjaminv>  jerboaa,
 [11:17:31] <benjaminv>  jerboaa, sure
 [11:17:56]  *** jerboaa really likes that we'll finally get some user-docs
 [11:18:32]  *** benjaminv agrees with jerboaa
 [11:19:24] <divarvel>  hi
 [11:19:48] <jerboaa>  divarvel, hola! how are things?
 [11:20:14] <divarvel>  I'm in a rush
 [11:20:31] <divarvel>  I have a thing to code
 [11:20:38] <divarvel>  the deadline is today
 [11:20:40] <NelleV>  divarvel: for Markus ?
 [11:20:47] <divarvel>  nope
 [11:20:48]  *** benjaminv afk, just go for a little run ^^
 [11:20:52] <divarvel>  for eklaweb
 [11:20:56] <NelleV>  ah ok
 [11:21:16] <jerboaa>  divarvel, not good - good luck with it
 [11:21:28] <NelleV>  divarvel: organize yourself better :p
 [11:21:28] <divarvel>  I'm almost done
 [11:21:42] <divarvel>  but I'd rather sleep
 [11:21:54] <divarvel>  I was given the assignment tuesday
 [11:21:57] <divarvel>  ^^
 [11:22:03] <NelleV>  divarvel: stop going out so much !!!
 [11:22:06] <NelleV>  ah, ok xD
 [11:22:34] <divarvel>  yup, going out wednesday night wasn't the best move
 [11:25:37] <NelleV>  ok, there's absolutely no point in me staring at this code... I'm going home :s
 [11:25:43] <NelleV>  see you later !
 [11:26:15] <divarvel>  kthxbai
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 [11:27:12] <jerboaa>  interesting acronym - those irc'ers :)
 [11:32:09] <divarvel>  lolspeak is my third language
 [11:32:44] <jerboaa>  hmm... :)
 [11:38:41] <divarvel>  and I went on IRC for the first time only a few months ago
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 [11:45:38] <jerboaa>  that's impressive
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 [12:34:22]  *** jerboaa senses busy #markus times ahead, meeting time ;-)
 [12:34:32] <m_conley>  yep indeed
 [12:35:02] <m_conley>  jerboaa: one thing I'm planning on bringing up: the new team members have to do reviews too. :/ I haven't been as diligent as I've been in the past about that one.
 [12:35:32] <jerboaa>  m_conley++
 [12:43:52] <jerboaa>  Hi viv! :)
 [12:46:58] <viv>  hello everyone!
 [12:47:19] <m_conley>  viv: hey!
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 [12:53:10] <victorivri>  hello everyone
 [12:53:59] <m_conley>  hey victorivri
 [12:54:14] <victorivri>  hey mike
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 [12:56:04] <viv>  hi victor
 [12:56:05] <kschmidt_>  Hello everyone
 [12:56:13] <Hora>  hi
 [12:56:14] <m_conley>  hey kschmidt_
 [12:56:18] <mi_sa>  hey :)
 [12:56:28] <karenreid>  Hi everyone!
 [12:56:31] <m_conley>  hey Hora, mi_sa
 [12:56:45] <viv>  hi everyone :D
 [12:57:14] <karenreid>  We are just waiting for Jiahui?
 [12:57:23] <karenreid>  Back in a sec.
 [12:57:24] <victorivri>  evan also
 [12:57:38] <victorivri>  hey viv
 [13:00:12] <karenreid>  Since people usually have to leave promptly, lets get started anyway.
 [13:00:26] <karenreid>  Thanks for all the blog posts!
 [13:00:37] <karenreid>  It's nice to see progress being made.
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 [13:00:51] <evanb>  Hi everyone
 [13:01:07] <m_conley>  evanb: hey
 [13:01:34] <karenreid>  I've had a couple of thoughts about the testing group and the dashboard group that I hope I will remember as we go through.
 [13:02:01] <karenreid>  Thanks to benjaminv and others at Nantes we now have more documentation, which is great to see.
 [13:02:10] <karenreid>  Anyone should feel free to take a crack at editing it.
 [13:02:33] <karenreid>  Also, there are 12 TAs right now marking 310 assignments using MarkUs
 [13:02:43] <karenreid>  This was the first big test of the new grader interface
 [13:02:51] <m_conley>  and? everything ok?
 [13:03:03] <karenreid>  that allows the instructor to assign tas to criteria, so we'll get some real feedback
 [13:03:13] <karenreid>  It worked pretty well!
 [13:03:18] <evanb>  great!
 [13:03:46] <viv>  thats good to hear!
 [13:03:58] <karenreid>  It is a really hard problem to provide a UI like that, so the one we have requires some learning, but I don't think we could make it easier.
 [13:04:26] <karenreid>  I'm going to be a bit random today (sleep deprivation)
 [13:04:45] <karenreid>  So what I wanted to mention to the dashboard/reporting crew is
 [13:05:02] <karenreid>  that we need to create some sort of view to see the progress of TAs while they are grading assignments.
 [13:05:24] <Hora>  for the professor, right?
 [13:05:31] <karenreid>  We also need a reasonbly easy way to see which groups/criteria are still remaining to be marked.
 [13:05:34] <karenreid>  Hora: yes
 [13:05:53] <Hora>  ok
 [13:05:57] <karenreid>  evanb and I talked about this a bit in the summer, but I think there is still room for some design.
 [13:06:40] <karenreid>  Unless there is a natural way to add it to the manage graders view, I think it will be a separate view since I don't really want to add anything to slow down the submissions table.
 [13:06:53] <Hora>  right
 [13:07:20] <karenreid>  While we are on the topic of dashboard/reporting, would Hora and/or kschmidt_ like to add anything?
 [13:08:09] <Hora>  we're still working on testing out different graphing frameworks
 [13:08:15] <Hora>  we found a few really great ones
 [13:08:19] <karenreid>  It would be good to see a blog post comparing the different graphing frameworks.
 [13:08:25] <kschmidt_>  That's the plan for next week
 [13:08:28] <Hora>  and we'll write a blog post comparing them, yes, to get feedback
 [13:08:28] <karenreid>  don't spend too long trying to choose one.
 [13:08:33] <karenreid>  cool!
 [13:08:35] <kschmidt_>  We're going to implement 3 test graphs and narrow the field down to a couple options
 [13:09:11] <karenreid>  We have lots of ground to cover so don't make your analysis too in depth. :-)
 [13:09:27] <Hora>  alright
 [13:09:34] <Hora>  we'll get this blog post up asap
 [13:09:49] <karenreid>  Thanks!
 [13:09:51] <karenreid>  Okay, how about the remark requests group? viv and mi_sa?
 [13:10:28] <mi_sa>  after meeting up with you both Vivian and I have been looking into the code a bit but not too extensively (due to time constraint)
 [13:10:45] <mi_sa>  but we are planning on either discussing online or in person about creating paper prototypes
 [13:10:54] <karenreid>  (It was a busy week here!)
 [13:11:00] <mi_sa>  it was =(
 [13:11:08] <viv>  it was unfortunately
 [13:11:22] <karenreid>  Sounds good. It would be great to have something put together for wider discussion by next week.
 [13:11:36] <karenreid>  I'd like to get you working on implementation as soon as we can.
 [13:11:39] <viv>  we'll probably come up with some protoypes by next week
 [13:11:52] <mi_sa>  yeah, viv, let's find a time when we can meet up
 [13:12:02] <karenreid>  Sounds good.
 [13:12:18] <viv>  sure, i'll contact you via email after our meeting
 [13:12:24] <karenreid>  How about the test framework team? evanb, victorivri?
 [13:13:05] <evanb>  I think we're still working on figuring out the existing test framework at the moment
 [13:13:46] <victorivri>  frankly I'm a bit in the same boat as viv and mi_sa.. had tons of work from other courses this reading week. i looked into it a bit, but didn't get far enough to do actual tests
 [13:14:03] <evanb>  I've been getting stuck... I think I will email the mailing list about it
 [13:14:03] <karenreid>  No problem.
 [13:14:04] <victorivri>  the good thing is that we have a few directions for work
 [13:14:38] <karenreid>  We have been having some issues with the "collection" of assignments this week and I was reminded that we may have some work to do to be able to save and view multiple test runs.
 [13:14:39] <victorivri>  evanb - how about meeting up on saturday to work on it?
 [13:14:52] <evanb>  victorivri, that would be great!
 [13:15:06] <victorivri>  evanb, cool - talk to you after this meeting's up
 [13:15:31] <evanb>  I think the collection of assignments needs to be simplified when there are no pdfs to convert
 [13:15:45] <karenreid>  evanb: I agree.
 [13:16:12] <karenreid>  I've had some complaints from TAs who have to click twice on each student before they get to the grading view.
 [13:16:27] <evanb>  I get that too on my own machine
 [13:16:34] <victorivri>  is it a focusing issue perhaps?
 [13:16:44] <victorivri>  as in, window/element not in focus
 [13:16:47] <kschmidt_>  I get that too
 [13:16:51] <m_conley>  I think it's a collection queue problem.
 [13:16:55] <karenreid>  The only other issue that has come up this week is another ordering problem. :-(
 [13:17:01] <m_conley>  saw that. :/
 [13:17:29] <karenreid>  I thought we had this fixed, but when we upload a rubric file the order of the criteria needs to be the same as in the file. Right now it is alphabetic. :-(
 [13:17:34] <karenreid>  I just filed a ticket.
 [13:18:01] <karenreid>  DIane has long rubrics (>10 criteria) and it is hard to reorder them in the rubric view.
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 [13:19:00] <karenreid>  I do want to caution everyone not to spend too much time planning. We are getting close to the halfway point already, and I'd really like to see everyone get at least a small piece implemented.
 [13:19:31] <m_conley>  I'd also like to mention something:
 [13:19:35] <karenreid>  You won't be able to make the perfect decision, so the best approach is to make a proposal, let us kick it around a bit on irc/blog/email, and the start working on it.
 [13:19:42] <karenreid>  m_conley: go ahead
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 [13:20:20] <m_conley>  There are a ton of review requests idling on Review Board. I want to remind you all that code reviewing is part of your job this semester too.
 [13:20:31] <evanb>  m_conley I was about to say the same thing
 [13:20:42] <m_conley>  Even if you don't know what the code is doing - the review could just be a question: "Why did you do this? How does this work?" etc
 [13:20:58] <m_conley>  or, you could even just say: "Wow, I like how this works.", or "This is really cool!"
 [13:21:25] <NelleV>  I think we should organize reviewing a bit more. Like attributing review request to people
 [13:21:34] <NelleV>  (hi everyone)
 [13:21:35] <karenreid>  Yes please!
 [13:21:36] <m_conley>  it's been strangely quiet on Review Board this semester in terms of reviews. I guess that's my fault - I'm usually really pushing the reviews. ;)
 [13:21:48] <NelleV>  m_conley: yes, but you are not supposed to do all the work
 [13:21:49] <NelleV>  :-)
 [13:21:57] <m_conley>  correct, correct
 [13:22:15] <m_conley>  but I'm usually really trying to get people to do them. Anyhow, I'm just putting that out there:
 [13:22:15] <mi_sa>  do individual team members have the right to close issues now?
 [13:22:19] <mi_sa>  on github
 [13:22:23] <m_conley>  the code is frozen until someone looks at it and reviews it. Please review.
 [13:22:24] <karenreid>  Everyone should get at least one comment up on the review board.
 [13:22:32] <victorivri>  seems like there's enough work to be done in our respective areas :-/ I know you're right, but it seems like it would be a better investment of time to work on the "big project"
 [13:23:06] <m_conley>  victorivri: the whole team benefits from the reviews. You'll need someone to review your portion of the big project too.
 [13:23:08] <karenreid>  victorivri: I take your point, but you will end up learning more about how to fit your piece into the bigger project.
 [13:23:17] <m_conley>  victorivri: you'll benefit. trust me. I can prove it. :)
 [13:23:28] <evanb>  most of the reviews are quite small too so it shouldn't take too long to look them over
 [13:23:35] <NelleV>  reviewing is important not only to maintain the code in a good state, but also to learn new stuff, and to increase the bus number
 [13:23:38] <victorivri>  alright, point taken))
 [13:23:55] <m_conley>  anyhow, that's all I really wanted to say about that. Please review.
 [13:24:39] <karenreid>  NelleV or m_conley, if you have some suggestions of how to organize reviews better, let us know.
 [13:24:50] <m_conley>  (those with review requests - it helps to gently prod people to review, instead of just waiting. We forget, too. ;) )
 [13:25:09] <m_conley>  a friendly e-mail saying, "could you please give this a review"?
 [13:25:12] <m_conley>  that sort of thing.
 [13:25:33] <NelleV>  mmh, m_conley would you have time to do a brainstorming about any time soon ?
 [13:25:42] <m_conley>  NelleV: sure - after this meeting?
 [13:26:01] <karenreid>  Any other business?
 [13:26:07] <NelleV>  m_conley: yep !
 [13:26:37] <m_conley>  karenreid: none from me.
 [13:27:49] <karenreid>  Then, in the spirit of not letting meetings run longer than necessary, I declare this meeting closed. :-)
 [13:27:58] <m_conley>  thanks everyone
 [13:28:02] <karenreid>  Thanks everyone
 [13:28:03] <m_conley>  go out and be productive. :)